(2015). And so thats one significant element of this eschatological Day of Atonement, and this is the one thats particularly emphasizedits all in Hebrewsbut this is particularly emphasized in the Johannine literature. Fr. Im just pointing out that you asked a perfectly logical question based on a bad translation. Its also the Roman soldiers who are doing these Day of Atonement things in St. Matthews gospel. Fr. Oh, man, whats happening here? [Laughter] I just need to read this word. Stephen: This doesnt mean its not historical, because any historian has to choose details to include and details to omit, and will write about things and describe things in certain ways. Fr. [Laughter] Yeah, but okay, okay, so it doesnt quite map. ", Nephilim: The Children of Lilith. How could that have happened? How do we engage with it well? Atonement - The Whole Counsel Blog Copyright 2005-2023 Ancient Faith Ministries, Inc.All Rights Reserved. Im just going to say that at the outset. All right, well, the third half is going to be the shortest half. Fr. Stephen De Young and Ancient Faith Radio, Fr. And a very well-known biblical scholar and a very good biblical scholar, Simon Gathercole, who wrote the magisterial material on the Gospel of Thomas, for example, amongst many other great things, did a book a few years ago on atonement, trying to defend the particular atonement theory of penal substitutionary atonement. You get these atonement theories that are then theories of how it works from Gods end; how God does it. And then, when eventually Israel makes its way to the promised land, its Israel, and then the nations are out there. Now, while "the psychological characteristics of the Nephilim are not specifically described in the Bible" neither is that they "had distinct physical characteristics of large size and great strength" nor that they were "generally pictured as being very proud, belligerent, sexually aggressive, and prone to conflicttall, strong, and belligerentphysically intimidatingNephilic characteristics of height, musculature, and psychopathology." Andrew: Yeah, so he goes in, and he doesnt see an idol in there, and hes like: Well, what the heck? [Laughter] He actually busts his way into the holy of holies, so the Temple has to be reconsecrated. With this book, Fr. So it starts with, as we talked about last time, the idea of sin-offeringsit starts with a sin-offering by the high priest and his immediate sons who are going to be serving with him; its the high priest and only the high priest and only on this day, who was going to actually go into what we now call the holy of holies or the sanctum sanctorum, if youre a Doctor Strange fan. Stephen: And without going down the whole rabbit-trail of when you can and cant touch the ark, because thats a whole separate thing. He's the host of the Whole Counsel of God podcast and a co-host of the Lord of Spirits podcast from Ancient Faith. Fr. Fr. We might go a little further if we understand that the body is this nexus of powers or potentialities, to say, well, all of the human powers and all of the human capacities, but for St. Athanasiusand St. Irenaeus does something very similar before him by a couple of centurieshe means spatio-temporally, that Christ not only sanctifies humanity in its parts and in its powers, but the moments of a human lifebirth, childhood, young adulthood, adulthood, up to and including a human deathand that by living through those, not just, again, spatially, but temporally, those things are sanctified and purified by the union of Christs divinity and humanity in his Person. Photius: No, they dont. Fr. Some people like New Coke, which, now it turns out was all a conspiracy, but I wont get into that here. Lets be clear on that. Lord of Spirits: Sons of God, Equal to the Angels. Andrew: Aw man. And to get at that, we get some help from some of the Church Fathers. Fr. Fr. So whats important here is just we need this blood from this goat, from this pure and blameless goat. Bible Hacking with Dr. Stephen de Young BibleHacking 496 subscribers Subscribe 3.1K views Streamed 1 year ago A LIVE discussion with Orthodox Biblical scholar Dr. Stephen de Young.. Stephen: Right, we have to have it perfect, because hes going to appear, and if he appears and its imperfect, then this is going to get bad for us, for Israel. Fr. So they rededicate the Temple, and although it didnt happen that time, when the tabernacle is dedicated, when the Temple was dedicated by Solomon, after everything is dedicated, after the blood is used to purify everything and consecrate everything, then the presence of God enters in as this fiery cloud. Stephen: Right, hes clarifying. Fr. Andrew: Yes, right, so the idea is to take the sins of the people and get them out of the place where sin does not belong. [Laughter] And the reason they pushed him off a cliff or a crag was the very practical problem of: What do you do if the goat gets loose and wanders back into down? Andrew: Yeah, just list off the commandments. So lets talk about what St. John says about this. So, yeah, but that understanding of it is responsible for a lot of Western Christianity. Okay, Im just trying to get better like Im doing a diet, a spiritual diet.. The Lord of Spirits | Ancient Faith Ministries Okay, sono, its good. Fr. I do I will say, I acknowledge the King James Bible has some errors in it, translation errorsand we just lost all of our KJV-only listeners the one. Partially reviewing what the paper states about the Bible specifically. [Laughter]. Stephen holds a Ph.D. in Biblical Studies from Amridge University. [Laughter] Yeah, not all goats are the same in every reference in Scripture, but Fr. Stephen: And historically, especially with 1 John, its important to note that the general epistles, which is all those letters that St. Paul didnt write, the general or catholic epistles, the ones written by other people, out of all of those, in the very early history of the Church, were being utilized by some churches and not others. Andrew: Thats what it is. He then has broken Azazels hold over the world, and so now the whole cosmos, the whole creation can become sacred space, can be purified and can be sacred space. He is also the host of the Whole Counsel of God podcast from Ancient Faith and author of the Whole Counsel Blog, as well as co-host of the Lord of Spirits podcast. Fr. But the one that everyone agreed on, out of all of the general epistles or catholic epistles, was 1 John. One of these beliefs concerned the Jewish origins of the New Testament. The goat is not caused to suffer. Stephen: So this isnt transactional, so its not an issue of, like, Oh, well, maybe there were some sins that got missed during the year, so were going to do this sort of catch-all Day of Atonement to pick up those ones that were missed. Those were being done perpetually to cover all of the sinning that was going on, that everyone knew was going on in Israel. Yes, yes, yes! Kuehn, S., Monster. Well, for first-century Judeans, that is the place of the Battle of Emmaus, and that is related to the Maccabees. Fr. Fr. Facebook In what manner is the atoning work of Christ mediated to the world, or could we say that it is mediated to the world by the Church? Fr. So hes not sacrificed to Azazel. You can get super in the weeds! The first is that Orthodox Christianity had to interact with heresies, resulting in various doctrinal formulas such as Trinitarian doctrine. He holds a PhD in Biblical Studies from Amridge University. Stephen: And then as Hebrews again makes plain in Hebrews 11-12, Christ dies outside the camp. Stephen: Right, and what St. Matthew conveys there with His blood be on us and on our children in narrative theology, Hebrews just comes out and says, in Hebrews 9:18-22, that says, They were sprinkled with the blood. Andrew: Thank you very much for calling in, Dan. So when Peter is called to go see Cornelius the centurion whos a Roman, whos a Gentile, whos from one of the pagan nations, he sees this vision of the animals, the formerly unclean animals, being lowered in this cloth. My only criticism of The Religion of the Apostles is that its purpose seems ambiguous. Dr. Stephen De Young, Orthodox priest and an expert in ancient languages and a scholar of Biblical theology joins me for an interview about his newest book. We have a text in the New Testament that says that those very verses were fulfilled in Christs ministry. Thank you. Fr. Stephen: Yes. Product details Publisher : Ancient Faith Publishing (October 18, 2021) Language : English Paperback : 160 pages ISBN-10 : 1955890048 ISBN-13 : 978-1955890045 Item Weight : 7.5 ounces Stephen wrote his PhD dissertation on the atonement, so he is well-qualified to address the issue. The only other place where the phrase for the whole world, or the phrase the whole world, tou olou kosmou, occurs in 1 John is in chapter 5, the verse we read: The whole world lies under the power of the evil one. So if you want to interpret the whole world in 1 John 2:2 as referring to the people in the world, then St. John is saying that all the people in the world lie under the power of the evil one, which would include himself and the Church, and that makes no sense in the context of the epistle where hes clearly distinguishing between two groups of people. Stephen De Young finishes up the discussion of Revelation, Chapter 12, and starts on Chapter 13. Andrew: Yeah, with a goat-head and big, leathery wings. He could have used a word for stick.. Amen. And then what happens next? As a bridge between the discussion of Christ in St. Paul's epistles and Christ in the General Epistles, it is important to discuss a second factor in St. Paul's understanding of Christ as God. Its everybodys sins. They have to be the greatest goats of all time. The understanding of the geography, biblical text and the cosmological significance of the area of Transjordan, and specifically Bashan in the Bible, give valuable understanding to what Jesus expressed: And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man.". Theyre claiming some kind of economic theory of atonement here! Yeah, no. Stephen: And its not, you know, some kind of sacred gold mined from the holy mountain. Consequently, Christianity has more continuity with the religion practiced by the Pharisees than what we know of today as Judaism.. Fr. Its really, really cool. Length: 2:12:00. I hear you. Stephen: The blood comes and purifies, and then the Holy Spirit comes to dwell there. In case you miscontrued everything I just said: Youre not worshiping Azazel. Andrew: I mean, I love that word. Fr. Mr. So that means the one thats going to be used for the more positive and holy purpose has to be pure, unblemished, no broken bones, not a runt, etc., but since it could be either, they both have to be that. Im getting a little giddy here, because when we were going over this in our preparation, it was just stunning to me: once you have clarity about, especially what the Old Testament says, theres all kinds of bits of the New Testament that just light up, left and right. Father Stephen De Young's comments on political converts "If you're a high church Protestant, and your denomination starts ordaining women, and that's the only reason you're interested in joining the Orthodox Church, if they had never started ordaining women, you would have happily stayed there your entire life, you should not become Orthodox. Fr. (more), Descending to Ascend: Prayer as Initiation Into Divine Judgment in the, Mind the Gap: First Principles and Popular Theology, Participants in the Altar: in I Corinthians 10:14-22, Energies of the Trinity: The Energies as Tripersonal Communion in Gregory Palamas, V. S. Soloviev and the Russian Roots of Personalism. Fr. The Place of Man in the Ontological and Cosmological Dualism of the Diablo, Darksiders and Devil May Cry Game Series, Satan the Great Dragon Enlil, Ushumgallu and Bashmu. Well, like I said, it is Goat Week, and here at Goat Week weve got you covered. Fr. Not so great for the goat, but it keeps that from happening, which would be a very awkward moment. We had the Sunday of the Last Judgment, so weve had goats on our minds. Fr. Stephen: Im Um, actually"ing you in real time. Stephen: And, briefly, since you brought up the next few episodes about geography, I know Maps is going to end up on the playlist, so lets make sure its the Yeah Yeah Yeahs and not Maroon 5. Andrew: Its a response. 13-26. Review of Richard B. Sorensens paper Was Hams Wife of the Nephilim?, Partial review of Marco Romano and Marco Avanzinis The skeletons of Cyclops and Lestrigons by Ken Ammi, The Nephilim and Rephaim: Satans Seed from Creation and Emergence in the Great Tribulation, Exegetical Discord in Genesis 6.1-4 Hermeneutics: Etiology of Evil Obscured, Open Review of the Center for Rational Theologys Abarim Publications on Nephilim and Giants in the Bible, by Ken Ammi, Response to Richard Sorensens review of my paper Review of Richard B. Sorensens paper, Were the Nephilim Genetically Psychopathic?, Angels in the Targums, An Examination of Angels, Demons, and Giants in the Pentateuch Targums, How Nephilim Absconded from the Tanakh and Invaded Folkloric Territory, A review of Adrienne Mayor's paper "Giants in Ancient Warfare" by Ken Ammi, When Gods Roamed the Earth: Thematic Parallels to Gen. 6:1-4 from the Ancient Near East, Review of Richard B. Sorensens paper, Were the Nephilim Genetically Psychopathic?, The Council of the Titans: The Old Greek Gods Among the Amorites, "The Giant in a Thousand Years: Tracing Narratives of Gigantism in the Hebrew Bible and Beyond," in Goff, Stuckenbruck, and Morano (eds. Stephen: Yeah, which brings it to I give and I take away, and I gave you your OED, Fr. Stephen: The goat who exists or the goat who creates Yeah. Fr. "Atonement" is a word invented for the translation of the Bible into English, because there was no good English word for the concept it describes. So this is about that. Thats for all of my Southern friends out there. So thats what were going to do now. Fr. Fr. Its a word thats core to our understanding of Christianity, and yet there are about as many theories of atonement as there are Christian groups. Stephen De Young concludes Revelation, Chapter 9. That is not a false etymology, although usually etymologies that go like that are; theyre just nonsense. Fr. Dr. Stephen De Young is Pastor of Archangel Gabriel Orthodox Church in Lafayette, Louisiana. So thats sort of the first covering that takes place, is through that incense offering. Stephen: And youll see it in even Orthodox translations, because a lot of our early Orthodox translations were either utilizing or aping the King James Version language, and so you can kind of see how you can get there, like if you go from a very developed theological idea, where you dont really know what the Hebrew word means, so youre thinking, Well, okay, God is enthroned behind the ark of the covenant, between the cherubim. But if we understand it as covering, which is the perfect word, because were about to talk about what this actually does, but the concept is based on this idea that there is sacred space that has been set aside for the holiness of God to be present there with the people, but that the peoples sins interfere with that, that they actually stain the place. Photius: Im sorry. Fr. I will not. Andrew: Yeah, so someone comes in: So what did you do, pal? [Laughter], Fr. They werent like that. Its quite all right. The Whole Counsel of God on Apple Podcasts There are sort of a handful, I think four or five, uses of it in the first century AD and later, and like half of those are by Plutarch, by one author. Fr. Fr. Andrew: [Laughter] Yeah, actually we looked this up and we could find no link, but who knows? Fr. Well, weve looked at this one particular ritual, and now we know what it does, and it does the same thing in us, for us, around us, throughout the whole cosmos. [Laughter]. Rev. Fr. Fr. Andrew: Yeah, and most Semitic languages work this way, so if any of our listeners are Arabic-speakers, which I know some are, its again those three consonants make up pretty much every word in Arabic. Its sharing a meal with your god. And if hes of Azazel, this one whos teaching this forbidden knowledge, then hes doing the works of his father, so to speak; hes imaging Azazel. Thats what he named himself, and he actually went into the Temple in Jerusalem and sacrificed pigs on the altar to Zeus. Fr. Christ is both goats. Stephen: And consecrate them as sacred space. Related Episodes Violence in the Old Testament: Sin, Death and Justice in the Bible Lord of Spirits: Blessings and Curses What exactly is a blessing? Andrew: Yeah! Fr. Stephen: Right, and through theology that had developed in Latin, they had an idea of what that was supposed to mean, or what it had come to mean theologically, and so they were really translating that. The important thing is just: you have to get the blood out of it. Yeah, yeah. Dan: Yeah, yeah, thats really helpful. They have to be the best goats, both of them are the best goats. Fr. Fr. Fr. Stephen: Yeah, and hes often associated with other symbols like the caduceus of enlightenment and that kind of thing, but well talk about that more here in the second half. The poor goat. For we did not follow cleverly imagined stories when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. Stephen: Right. En (James A.) As if. Like, what did the altar do that it had to atone? Strictly speaking, thats not Christianity; its Gnosticism. Does it have anything to do with suffering or punishment? These. And in a ritual, if something is not ritualized, when you have a detailed ritual, and it says, Before the ritual, wash your hands, for example, and it doesnt say, Heres the prayer when you wash your hands, that means the hand-washing isnt ritualized, and it means it doesnt mean anything. It includes that, but the way that they tell the story is designed to teach you how Christ, in this case, is the fulfillment of what was given in the old covenant. Well, that is our show for today. Dr. Stephen De Young is Pastor of Archangel Gabriel Orthodox Church in Lafayette, Louisiana. And he arguedone of his most prominent arguments that he repeated again again was that penal substitutionary atonement is the only theory of how it works that has a mechanism of how it worksthats his word. . Andrew: Got you. Other sacrificial rituals where you see the laying-on of hands, thats to designate the animal as a sacrifice. Stephen: Right, and that enlightenment imagery, like the caduceus and those kind of things that are attached to Baphomet is the same kind of things. When I received my copy of The Religion of the Apostles: Orthodox Christianity in the First Century by Fr. We will find that the only reading of the Bible that results in tall tales about "giants" is not a literal one but one which I call a theo-sci-fi eisegetical (pseudo) hermeneutic. Luke uses the Day of Atonement imagery to describe Christ as being the goat that is sent to Yahweh. So some people will try to will want to translate Azazel, instead of seeing it as a name, as a proper name, will want to translate it as something like the goat who goes away. This is where scapegoat comes from, because scape- like escape. Escape is go away: the goat that goes away. Fr. The Bible provides us with some similes pertaining to height. Stephen De Young host this live call-in show focused on enchantment in creation, the union of the seen and unseen as made by God and experienced by mankind throughout history. Fr. Its about the reality of when the rubber meets the road and how each of us approaches our Christian life. Religion of the Apostles: Orthodox Christianity in the First Century How do you do that? So you see, for example, the teaching of the works of Azazel. Andrew: Amen. Andrew: There you go: the Day of the Covering. And the rest of the show will be explaining that joke. The Religion of the Apostles: Orthodox Christianity in the First Fr. Andrew: Outside the camp, yeah.